For the record, here is the entire unredacted actual content of the email discussions I had with Ned Kelly Central about my expulsion from their Facebook Page. Here also are the email discussions about their actions afterwards when they posted a Comment of mine from my FB page, allowing anyone to attack it in any way they wanted, safe in the knowledge I could not respond. They couldn’t see that gagging one side of a debate is an appalling abuse of the freedom of speech.
But this Chapter is now closed. Ned Kelly Central is a place for Kelly Sympathisers to swap pleasantries about what a wonderful hero the mass murderer Ned Kelly was, and to outdo each other in expressions of hatred for the Police and anyone who doesn’t agree with their mindless sycophancy. Nobody with a contrary view will ever waste their time and energy as I have been doing challenging any of their false beliefs, or misogyny, cop hate-speech, ignorance of Kelly history or outright lies, having seen how my attempts were responded to with personal attacks against me, lies about me, the invention of rules to get rid of me, and eventual expulsion. Like the NKF which also expelled people with contrary views, NK Central will steadily decline into irrelevance, and eventually disappear.
November 16th
Dear Anonymous administrator
You have expelled me from the NK Central stating that it has been done according to the guidelines of the pages Impressum. Ive been familiar with your impressum for some time and was not aware of any indication within it relating to the use of more than one avatar. If there was I would have been more careful to only use one.
I am writing to protest against this unfair action that has been taken without giving me any sort of warning or the opportunity to either explain myself or modify my behaviour. Given that this situation is NOT mentioned in the Impressum, it is doubly unjust to summarily expel me. The truth I think is that you’ve expelled me because of what I am saying.
If you have simply decided you don’t want people like me to appear on your Page and challenge the views of others there, then I think you ought to have the courage of your convictions and simply make that plain. I think you ought to make it plain that NK Central is really only interested in pro-Kelly discussions, and put away the pre tense to being a forum for anyone interested in the Kelly story. However, to announce that I have been expelled for breaking a rule, when that rule doesn’t exist is dishonest and mean.
I would be interested in your explanations
Hi Dee, we have been messaged over a period of time by concerns to Admin regarding what is deemed to be your continual ‘personal harassment of targeted individuals’ using more than one false profile.
Unfortunately this problematic situation has escalated again today and has been actively discussed by the administrators as to what our response would be.
As you can understand continued comments that scrutinise individuals can anger, cause distress, provoke others and create negativity, and this does become very difficult to deal with as moderators.
The ‘Ned Kelly Central’ Facebook site is primarily a sharing site with different viewpoints and discussion. Intense debates are definitely interesting, but are not always easily ‘moderatable’, and I believe we have discussed this with you before and thought this was clarified.
We believe there are some followers who occasional comment with false profiles and have overlooked this at times if it is manageable, without offence and appears to be in keeping with the Impressum guidelines. However this site cannot encourage or condone multiple profiles from one person that are false, especially if they continue to scrutinise individuals in what has been deemed personal strikes or ongoing targeted criticism.
You have been temporarily blocked, under the Impressum guideline “on a case by case basis”. In this “case” you have been deemed (without warning), for the obvious use of more than one profile, which you have declared openly that you use on our site.
This site has tried to protect your views for over a year now, and also look after the way you operate, we also appreciate comments you have made, just like any other follower that has chosen to post or comment here. Different viewpoints and beliefs are welcome regardless of your criticism of our site in your email.
You have put Admin in a very difficult position with some of your past commenting behaviours. Agreed we have not clarified multiple profile use in our Impressum (we may/may not choose to review this) but it does fit into our “case by case” basis, and is further qualified by stating “all decisions made by ‘Ned Kelly Central’ are final”. Facebook also states that fake “personal profiles” are against their policies (not ours). Ned Kelly Central is not run from a personal Facebook “Profile” and does conform to use an organisation name of “Ned Kelly Central” with its own avatar, just like any other business or organisation webpage can on Facebook.
If in the future we choose to unblock you, we do hope you can participate openly, fairly, without exception, and know the boundaries, without trying to reform us and our site.
We do try and encourage all points of discussion, but will not tolerate ongoing issues going against our Impressum.
Due to the response we have had privately we think there will be some sole searching tonight by a few individuals.
Regards
Ned Kelly Central
Dear NKC
thank you for your response.
In relation to the complaints of ‘continued personal harassment of targeted individuals’ would you be kind enough to point out the specific instances where this occurred in relation to my contributions? I do not believe there have ever been any, and certainly not today. What actually happened to day was that Leigh for reasons of his own was unwilling to answer a specific legitimate question which I asked politely twice. I did not pursue him harass or abuse him in any way but pursued in a reasonable way the point I was trying to make. This is simply robust debate, not personal attack as someone tried to make out. He then resorted to criticising me for using a pseudonym, as did Fitsimons who at the last minute joined the attacks on me, escalated the whole thing into a major drama and then he also attacked ******, accused her of being a fake and probably me and claimed that I had abused Leigh.All this is typical of that appalling man.
I am going to give you some advice. If you want to run the NKC as a place for ALL people interested in Ned Kelly, then you are going to have to accept that there are some who think he was a hero and others a villain and both viewpoints are going to be expressed and at times clash. Then when people come grizzling and complaining to you that they don’t like what certain people are saying, determine whether or not that person is abusing or attacking another person and the complaint is legitimate, or is that person actually making a legitimate point that the complainer just doesn’t like. If its the former, warn the person concerned or delete their posts. If its the latter, tell the whinger to argue back, make the case for their own point of view, join the debate and learn something, or go away. That is what you should have done today.
On the other hand if you want to run the NKC as a place just for Kelly sympathisers for gods sake announce it, give up the pretence of being a neutral player and let the sympathisers enjoy their Ned time in peace. At the moment they seem to think this is already such a place, and every time I appear I get told to go away.
So you guys have to decide – do the easy thing and make it a place for Sympathisers like the NKF, or do the hard thing and adjudicate fairly, stand up to whiners and complainers who try to stifle debate on topics they don’t like, and go with the flow.
Your call
Dee
Ned Kelly Central sees “everything” that gets posted or private messaged on our site (including many automatically filtered comments), and we don’t have to reveal any of the conversations, nor reasons as to why we have taken action to help protect our site and its members.
Ned Kelly Central and its Admin team have already explained why we took the necessary action that we did, our decision is final, and we will not be told how we need to run our site.
As you have been previously warned in the past, other members today were also given their first and second chances at explaining themselves, and reminded of our conditions.
Regards
Hi
I wasn’t wanting you to tell me about other peoples messages and postings but the ones that I made myself that you considered constituted harassment of targeted individuals. I didnt think there were any but maybe Im missing something.
So is there now a rule that you get two warnings and then get expelled without further notice? If there is such a rule shouldn’t you explain that to everyone, so they can understand exactly what the rules are?
HI Again
you don’t see a problem with putting my Post up on the Facebook Page that I have been blocked from?
Isn’t it natural justice to allow a person the right of reply? You have denied me this right.
May I ask exactly what is your thinking on this?
Hello again
its not clear to me what you mean by saying you have offered this one off reply back concession to the Blocked member? It reads as if you’re saying I have the right of reply, that you’re doing this to be fair, but at present I am still unable to post to your FB page.
Just wondering if I am understanding what you’re posting correctly or not.
And one other thing, given that you’ve asked people to “Please keep your comments without personal attacks and connected to the thread.”, what are you going to do with the posts from Mick Fitzsimons?
Dee,
You are blocked and remained blocked, however anyone can tap on your ‘Ned Kelly:The True Story’ share (from our Facebook page), and this should then give the opportunity to comment to your site. Users familiar with Facebook should understand this. You can also of course reply to any of the comments you receive via your own page.
As for Mick Fitzsimons, maybe this will be the last time he will make comments about you on this Facebook page.
Furthermore ‘Ned Kelly Central’ has always remained independent of any topic discussed by our members. Other sites should not be using our page as a platform to discuss our members, their comments, or to negatively target another organisation.
‘Ned Kelly Central’ will continue to moderate on a case by case basis, and use our Impressum guidelines as a standard for fairness.
Just to be clear then, people can respond to the post of mine that you have transplanted into your site safe in the knowledge that I have been gagged and no matter what they write, I can’t respond. It’s like tying me to a post and saying here everyone, have a free hit at Dee.
And you never really intended to act on what you wrote about people posting abuse?
You talk about fairness but what you’re doing to me is exceedingly unfair.
Dee,
The post is now removed, thanks for your participation on our site and it’s unfortunate that after allowing you many opportunities and providing much support for your views (with often high levels of moderation required), it has come to this last final criticism from you in regard to providing a ‘right of reply’.
This site is now achieving what it aims to be and I hope you can appreciate from our perspective that your insightful contributions will be missed. However this is not a Facebook site for interrogation of ‘individuals’ nor does it offer a platform for intense ‘attacking’ debates. These actions have been deemed as not allowable in our Impressum guidelines on a ‘case by case’ basis.
We cannot support a nameless person either, who is addressing others using multiple profiles with what appears to be an intent to antagonise.
We hope you can understand our final decision to block your profiles.
Thanks again for your involvement,
(Visited 226 times)
Trust Facebook to come up with the dumb word Impressum when simple English would have done. And trust the fools from NKC to use it…
I think the "artwork" was done by F*tzy.
Ford vs Holden, Private vs Public schooling, Labor or Liberal, and there will always be Pro vs Anti Kelly, and you've just shown everyone why most people are more and more anti Dee….you're losing the plot. Everyone knows you don't publicise private emails sent between each other. Who's going to trust you now?
You're certainly making people think twice now about contributing anything here, not to mention the tangle of issues related to Internet Privacy…well done again!
Death of a Kelly Blog I say!
James, these were NOT what you call 'private emails' between private individuals but email between the anonymous NKCentral Administrators and myself, an Anonymous Blogger. The NKC publicly referred to my correspondence with them, and mis-characterised it as “continual criticism”. They also mis-characterised the basis on which I was expelled, and I had no right of reply to any of this, my right to a “fair go” was denied. I felt the fairest thing was to release all that correspondence so people could read for themselves what had transpired between us, and make up their own minds. I expect most would not see what I wrote to them as merely 'continual criticism’ but as reasonable requests for clarity, for consistency and for fairness, and yes, some criticism as well. However NO personal confidences were breached, and let me assure those individuals who have in the past emailed and messaged me in confidence over the last two or three years, I give my word that I would NEVER breach such confidence.
So the way I interpret this emailgate saga, the 'continual criticism' they make reference to, isn't necessarily with the emails above, but with your participation over a long period of time while on their site. Furthermore, it's from my understanding of participating on any public site, is that everyone gets a 'fair go' when they first choose to contribute, not after multiple warnings. Although I know that anything I say to you, most likely won't ever be right, the point of email confidence you make reference here with 'past' email communications and the reassurance is here say. You've carefully worded that statement by publicising emails and messages 'sent to you', but excluded emails you question (draw from) other individuals, what about any future correspondence, and how can we actually know if you have or haven't forwarded emails to others in the background? Do people really trust you?
Mr Gray is doing the exact same thing as he accuses you of Dee, but is a far more boring way. Time to give him the flick?
James those are ALL the emails that relate to the NKC expelling me last weekend.
However you’re right I have had conversations with the NK Central Admin at various other times about the way they administer their Page. If you ask NKC about them you will find that there is one common thread running through almost all of them: the Kelly troll Mick Fitzsimons. What happens is that if I post something – and remember the NKC claimed to be a place for ALL viewpoints about Ned Kelly, so in theory at least I should be entitled to do that and get a fair hearing – at some stage the kelly troll inserts himself into the conversation with an hysterical attack on me, making all manner of irrelevant and false accusations about who I am, my agenda and so on, denying me the right to have or express an open, demanding that I disappear calling me a liar and hateful, vitriolic, abusive and so on, though NEVER EVER providing any single fact to back this up, and NEVER EVER arguing about the actual subject under discussion. So, if I defend myself, the response is more abuse from the bully and eventually the entire discussion gets deleted by Admin. I protested about this bullying and this deliberate sabotage of discussions and debate on several occasions but as you will have seen it was me who eventually got banned and not the Kelly troll who never contributed anything useful to any discussion I was ever involved in. You may have noticed they said the other day people posting abuse will be banned, but once again when the troll abused me – this was after I had been banned – he was allowed to remain. He seems to be a protected species at NKC and th Vault. So yes, I have openly expressed contempt and revulsion at the Internet behaviour of this repulsive individual who posted beheading videos to his Kelly FB page (and removed them when I pointed it out to everyone) and just last weekend launched an attack on the identity of another person he didnt agree with, saying she was fake and should be banned. However I think if you ask any of the other people who interacted with me on FB at the NKC, none of them will ever say I abused them or insulted them personally, but that I always tried to conduct a robust argument on the issues and not on personality. Ask Leigh, ask Bob, ask Michelle or Matt. Ive had serious disagreements with all these people, and they may have disagreed with me but I never attacked or vilified them personally. That however is the modus of the kelly troll Fitzsimons, making personal attacks on people and by doing so he has wrecked Forums, he has wrecked the NKF and now he has wrecked the NKC because they didnt get rid of him when they should have.
As I said, they booted out the wrong person.
As for people trusting me, thats for them to decide, but putting up all sides of an email conversation with an Anonymous administration is not a breech of anyones trust.